Second Act Success Career Podcast
Season 1 - ​​From A Woman To A Leader With Limor Bergman Gross
Episode - #66
Host: Shannon Russell
Guest: Limor Bergman Gross
Transcription (*created by Descript and may not be perfectly accurate)

[00:00:00] Limor Bergman Gross: throughout my career, I've been very proactive about what I wanted. About salary and about roles and all that. It wouldn't happen if I was just sitting and waiting for someone to hand me on the silver platter, the next role or promotion and all that. You cannot just sit and wait for someone to realize that you're doing a good job. You have to constantly advocate for yourself and push for what you.

[00:00:24] Shannon Russell: Are you at a crossroads in your career? Ready for a change, but you're not sure how to get there? Don't worry. We are about to produce your best life together. Welcome to the second Act Success podcast. I am your host Shannon Russell. I am a former television producer, turned boy Mom. I left my dream job to find family balance, and in doing so, I produced my dream. Now I am a business owner, podcaster, and career coach. My mission is to help other women like you find what they are truly meant to be doing. If you are ready to start over in your [00:01:00] career or pivot to a new purpose, then get ready to be inspired by stories of women who have done just that. We will share advice, an actionable tip. To motivate you as you move along on your path. It is time to shine. So let's start producing your balanced life of abundance today. This is Second Act Success.

Do you know what it feels like to be the only woman in the room every day at work? For 20 years, Limor Bergman Gross has broken the glass ceiling as a software engineer and a director of engineer. After being a female leader in the tech world for years, Limor now helps women find their strength in the boardroom and teaches them to break glass ceilings of their own. This is Limor and her Second Act Success story. Welcome to the podcast, Limor. How are you?

[00:01:53] Limor Bergman Gross: Great, Shannon. How are you?

[00:01:56] Shannon Russell: I'm wonderful. I'm so excited to chat with you about your journey. [00:02:00] You started in the world of engineering. Do you wanna kind of talk to me about how you got into that field and kind of walk us through the beginning part of your

[00:02:08] Limor Bergman Gross: story? Absolutely. So I actually started in high school. So what happened was back in the days when I was still in high school, I want to reveal when it. So you don't know how old I am, me

[00:02:20] Shannon Russell: either. , .

[00:02:23] Limor Bergman Gross: But back then, at least here in Israel, there was a distinction between someone who is good at math and science and stem basically to someone who is good at humanities and then, That distinction basically forced people to focus on, on STEM or humanities and uh, I think it's very unfortunate looking back. I was good at math. I was good at physics, chemistry, so I choose a very science heavy. Focus on my high school and grow up in thinking that that's all I can do. So I can only do things that are related to [00:03:00] science, to stem, et cetera. And I took a programming course in high school, and also after high school I took another one just to try it out because it was like, and still is considered a very good profession, very high. And that's how I found myself in computer science. So I went to study computer science and accounting and started working on my third year. already. So that's how I started my career as a software engineer. That's incredible.

[00:03:29] Shannon Russell: I think it's really interesting. We had another guest on, her name was Renetta Genik, and she was from Israel as well. And she talked about the same thing how she went into engineering in STEM in high school. And I don't think our high schools here in the United States have programs that are as vast as that, or at least none that I'm aware of at at general public schools. So I think it's f. That you have those kind of concentrations that you can go into at the high school level? So tell me about your first job after college. You went [00:04:00] into computer

[00:04:00] Limor Bergman Gross: science. Yeah, that's correct. So basically I was looking for a job in the summer between my second and third. I wanted to start getting some experience and I was interviewing, had some failures, and had some successes, and eventually I chose to go to a company that offered to pay my tuition. Not necessarily my first choice, but because they offered to pay the tuition, it was an obvious choice. Okay. I should definitely go there. And to be honest with you, my first year there was not that great. I worked part-time. I hated the kind of job that they gave me. It was very ancient kind of mainframe Cobo work. It was very boring. I did not like my job for the first year, I'll tell you that. I still learned a lot. I learned a lot of sql, which was useful later. But overall the experience was not that great And I met some very nice people and I got some experience, working, [00:05:00] but the job itself was not great. And I, and I guess I wanna give a message here to our listeners that that's okay. Everything that happens to you, just figure out what are the good things that happened, as a result of that. I know it's a lot of times very hard to look at things that we consider as, you know, bad things that happened to us in a different lens. But it is important because, I learned at least what I didn't want. And after that year, I went to the supervisor of my manager and I basically told him that I want to move to a different team. And I tried to be diplomatic. I told him that basically I didn't like what I was doing and I wanted to move to more modern, things. Back then it was, Java was a hype, it was relatively new language and uh, and I said, I wanna move to Java and the good thing is that he believed in me and, and gave me the opportunity. So I did learn a lot of things, right? I learned how to stand up for myself early on in my career, how to know what [00:06:00] I want, how to ask for what I want. so good things came out of it.

[00:06:05] Shannon Russell: So then you went into this new department, and how was that? Was that a better team fit for you? Wow. It

[00:06:10] Limor Bergman Gross: was, uh, on one hand. it was great, right? It was the latest and greatest, uh, learning a lot, but it was very intimidating. I didn't know anything. I didn't know Java and the whole team was men, obviously. I, I worked most of my career predominantly with men. I was very intimidated. I felt insecure, so definitely it wasn't easy.

Especially in

[00:06:33] Shannon Russell: your, in your young twenties at that time, right? Yeah. Like you're still young and you're figuring it out. Yeah. And that is very intimidating. You're not with. , other women that you can pal around with and you had to be on? Yeah. Luckily

[00:06:46] Limor Bergman Gross: for me, the people I worked with were great, really a great group of people. They were very supportive, very caring. They wanted to help me. And the manager that I had was also a great person, [00:07:00] so I was very lucky that, uh, I was working with people that were really understanding and supportive. ,

[00:07:09] Shannon Russell: that's what you needed. Yeah. So yeah. So how did your career kind of take off in the tech world after?

[00:07:16] Limor Bergman Gross: so I worked at that company overall for three and a half years, and I changed again after a year in that role. I changed to another team even harder, I always wanted to be like, stay on top of technology. Back then, I really wanted to learn as much as I could, and then eventually I figured. It's not the right place for me. This company. And I moved to work at some Microsystems, which was the holy grail for Java developer back then. and I, uh, worked there for 10 years. I started a software engineer and grew eventually to become a manager. And after that we moved to the US and I grew more as a leader.

And so, Where did you work when you were

[00:07:55] Shannon Russell: here in the

[00:07:55] Limor Bergman Gross: us? So I started in a very old school [00:08:00] company and a storage company, and then I moved to VMware and after that I moved to Digital Ocean, which is back then was a 150 people startup. Now it's much larger. Yeah. .

[00:08:12] Shannon Russell: What was your role like you were the director of engineering at this point?

[00:08:17] Limor Bergman Gross: Yes, I was promoted there while I was working there to director of engineering. . Responsible for the entire org? to provide certainty in times of uncertainty, to provide direction, to think about a bigger picture, to think about strategy, to think about the roadmap. That was the main things. And obviously, I mean, there are a lot of challenges within the company, a lot of conflicts and stuff like that. So I had that. I had to deal. ,

[00:08:41] Shannon Russell: How long were you a director of engineering and kind of in that

[00:08:44] Limor Bergman Gross: role? Approximately two years. what happened to me, and it happened, it, it was a long process. It didn't happen overnight. I realized at some point in my career that there is more f. to me than just this. And I wasn't passionate necessarily about [00:09:00] technology the same way that others were. That's what, at least I, I noticed on myself. Other people were excited to go to tech conferences and learn all the, the latest and greatest they read. Professional books and articles, and I wasn't that interested in that. I was more interested in people, I was interested in helping others grow. I was definitely interested in women in tech and supporting women. It took me several years. I realized that. . There was more to me than just that. Not that it was bad, not that I was doing a bad job, but I realized there was something else. It was just very, very difficult for me to get out of that cycle because it was good, it was comfortable. I was paid very well, so it was hard to break out of this. over 20 years I felt like, okay, I've been there, done that. I want to do something different.

[00:09:53] Shannon Russell: and at that point, 20 years in, were you noticing more women coming into the industry or were you still kind of [00:10:00] the, the one in a hundred

[00:10:02] Limor Bergman Gross: don't know if one in a hundred, but definitely there are not a lot of women. If I had to guess, I would say 10 to 15% in, in engineering, not in HR or other, you know, functions. Right. Um, and, and the organization that I was leading, yeah, there was maybe 10%, 15% women there and the rest were men. So definitely still, male dominated, I would say. And I was trying to change that, by the way. That's how I kind of partnered with Power To Fly, which. Also work with today. I figured that there's, there's more for me and I want to make an impact in areas where I'm passionate.

[00:10:41] Shannon Russell: So then talk to me about wanting to finally take a step out of this role and try this something new that you were kind of, that was sitting on your heart, that you were ready to.

[00:10:52] Limor Bergman Gross: I started mentoring in 2017, just a, an organization called reached out to me and said, Hey, would you mentor? And I [00:11:00] said, why not? And I, I noticed that I really enjoy mentoring and I also bring a lot of value to other managers, not necessarily just women, but in general. And when we, we decided also, I lived in the US and then we moved back. We decided to move back to Israel, at the end of 2019. And, , I figured, well, I have an opportunity here because I'm moving countries anyway. I'll have to switch a job. Why don't I just stop working and then figure this out? Because I had no idea what I wanted to do exactly. I, I knew that I wanted to do something different, but I didn't know what and how. So I decided to just take a step back. I needed to get out of this cycle and. You know, figure things out. And your

[00:11:47] Shannon Russell: family was supportive of this change. Cause that's a big change. If you were bringing in significant income to your family and now you were stepping back and moving countries and just kind of reestablishing yourself, that's a, that's a [00:12:00] lot.

[00:12:01] Limor Bergman Gross: It's a lot. And it wasn't easy. And it's still not easy. My husband was very supportive, I'll be honest. Financially, we took a big cut, we sacrificed mm-hmm. . Yeah. But we realized that that's what I needed to do in order to be happy and fulfilled. And again, I look at life, sometimes you need to step back and look at a higher level. It's a larger perspective at life and not just at the moment. I said, okay, I worked in the tech industry for over 20 years. I made a lot of money. We had savings. So yeah, sometimes you just need to take a cut and, and step back, and eventually you get back. You know how it is. I mean, when you make changes like that, something has to give, you have to sacrifice something and you cannot expect that in one day you'll be able to replace the [00:13:00] income you had with another income, especially if you're going to a very uncertain path. Like me, I mean, I wasn't, I didn't know what I was doing.

[00:13:09] Shannon Russell: No, you just knew you needed a change it's important. I've gone through that as well. I left a very well paying job to figure it out as well, and I think we're very privileged to be able to have partners that supported us during that. Change. Not everyone has that. So I, I acknowledge that that's a privilege for us to be able to do that and take a step back both emotionally and mentally, just just to be able to figure out what the next step is. Cuz you're right, it's definitely a larger overview and. . I think ultimately we can stay in a role that we're not so happy in for the rest of our lives, but it is one life that we're given. So making that change and building it is so, so important. So it was kind of like a clean slate for you,

[00:13:54] Limor Bergman Gross: Yeah. So I started working with Power To Fly and not very long after I left [00:14:00] Digital Ocean, I wasn't expecting that to happen, but, uh, I was in touch with their CEO and we talked and she said, oh, I want work with me so I started working with them. I still do. It's again, part-time consulting kind of basis. I'm very grateful for that because I'm, first of all, it allowed me, to figure things out along the way. And also I'm doing something I'm passionate about and I'm super aligned with Power To Fly's mission. So, It's a great privilege you know, I figured out what I wanted. I started, coaching and. Things are starting to fall into place.

[00:14:34] Shannon Russell: I know what Power To Fly is, but can you explain to our listeners kind of what that organization is? They are wonderful and they do so much

[00:14:40] Limor Bergman Gross: good. Yes, definitely. So Power To Fly's mission is about, supporting upskilling and connecting underrepresented talent to high paying jobs. To jobs in general, and also supporting employers, help them hire. underrepresented talent and help them retain and [00:15:00] become an inclusive working environment. And, that's basically how I know them. I started working with them, as a client because I wanted to hire. Back then they were focused on women on gender related, you know, focused.

But now it's broader. It's a broader mission, and I, I wanted to. to change the status quo. And, and many companies that wanna do the same, they reach out to Power To Fly and we'll help them do that. That's

[00:15:25] Shannon Russell: fantastic. So now you're working a little part-time there, you're starting to coach, so you're really moving towards becoming a mentor. For women in tech. Yeah,

[00:15:35] Limor Bergman Gross: so I do different things. I, uh, work with part of fly, I coach, I mentor, and I also do different trainings. I have a collaboration with the local, wonderful woman here. So I started, uh, doing workshops for presentation skills. So I do different things and I help also women with their LinkedIn profile. This is another area where, where I have expertise. So I do different [00:16:00] things and I really enjoy that. I enjoy wearing basically multiple hats and not just doing one thing. My overall mission is helping women gaining confident in themself. and achieving their goals, whatever that may be, helping them realize their potential, what is possible for them, and, uh, building a plan and executing upon it.

[00:16:22] Shannon Russell: Fantastic. Hey, it's Shannon. If you are enjoying this podcast, then you will love my weekly newsletter. It's full of career advice, productivity tips, and of course inspiring stories of women who have launched a new career that they. Just go to second Act success.co to sign up. Plus you'll get the My Success Vision Board to help you with your 2023 planning as well.

Now it's back to the episode. I've read that you want to help to continually tear down these ceilings that are challenges for women. And how do you [00:17:00] feel like your work is kind of working towards that goal of, of, , making women more present in the workplace where they want to be?

[00:17:06] Limor Bergman Gross: Yeah, so what I do with the women I work with, I help them first of all realize what they want. and, and it sounds basic, but a lot of times what happens that we tend to limit ourselves in our head about what is possible for us and, and not even allowing ourself to even dream about what we want. They'll say, oh, I'm here and that's what I can do. So I help them try to figure out what is possible for them to realize. What are their strengths By looking, you know, at all the things that they have done until now, realize they're, and, and that's how you build the confidence in yourself when you look at your achievements, at what you have done, realize what they're passionate about, what they wanna do, and how to make that a reality. I'm not saying it's easy, but a lot of times what happens is it can be even simple things [00:18:00] as you know. Transitioning to a different employer or trying to talk with your current manager about some changes and, and usually I work with them and figure out, okay, what is stopping you? What? And, and last time when I ask those questions, they, they look at me and say, well, actually nothing is stopping me it's like just realizing that they can do. ,

[00:18:23] Shannon Russell: We get in our own way sometimes. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I love that because you went through that, you spoke to your manager at one point and said, can I change teams? You know, like you've been there and now you're helping them do it as well.

For

[00:18:36] Limor Bergman Gross: sure. I've, throughout my career, I've been very proactive about what I wanted. About salary and about roles and all that. It wouldn't happen if I was just sitting and waiting for someone to hand me on the silver platter, the next role or promotion and all that. I'm not saying that promotion doesn't happen for good people. They do. As a manager, I did that obviously, but [00:19:00] you cannot just sit and wait for someone to realize that you're doing a good job. You have to constantly advocate for yourself and push for what you.

[00:19:08] Shannon Russell: And Limor. You know, I, I've realized in my prior career in the entertainment industry that a lot of times if you have a person in a position and they're really helping you, maybe they're an assistant, maybe they're a project manager, sometimes selfishly as the manager, you don't want to promote them because you need that person in that role. And I've been on the other side as well, where you know that you're ready to promote and that person just wants to keep you there. That's another example of how you need to be, advocating for yourself and say, I understand that I'm doing great in this role, but that's why I deserve to move up or to move to this, this higher pay structure. It takes sometimes people to speak up for themselves, for the manager to realize, otherwise, sometimes people will just keep you in that position because you're doing such a great job. Have you seen that in your experience?

[00:19:58] Limor Bergman Gross: Oh, believe me, I [00:20:00] have experienced that firsthand. I was in a spot where I actually, it happened to me before, I, uh, conceived my second child. Mm-hmm. , I was at a point that I was so frustrated and I didn't know what to do because my manager was thinking of himself only. and everyone that reported to him were just tools for him to achieve what he wanted in his career. And I really wanted to have a second child and I was debating whether I should just. Focused on switching a job or to expand my family. Today I think employers are more open to hiring women that are planning a, a child or even pregnant already. Mm-hmm. . But back then it wasn't that obvious that it's possible. And pregnancy , could become a blocker. Absolutely. Eventually I chose family first, and then after, after my second child, , was born, I, I, uh, moved to a management. , but I, I've been in situations where I was used. Mm-hmm. .

[00:20:59] Shannon Russell: That's interesting. I [00:21:00] never really thought about it as being used, but you're right, that's really what it is. It's making the other person's job easier because you are doing so well in your role. Why is it women who kind of find themselves in these positions maybe more so than men? I think

[00:21:14] Limor Bergman Gross: there are multiple reasons. first of all, I think women in general, I'm highly generalizing. . suffer from less confidence and also they are more hesitant to come and ask for things. On the other hand, employers on their side sometimes can perceive a woman that is asking for a raise, or, you know, for something as aggressive versus a man, that it'll be natural for them that a man would come and demand something. And sometimes I've seen women. That are naturally being used as a note taker. There's some bias right around women and if there's a group of people and there's a woman, oh, the woman will be the note taker. The woman will do, you know, organize [00:22:00] the meeting and all that, and that there, there's some bias there and we have to fight back. So it's a combination of things. What I'm trying to do when I work with those women is change their behavior because we cannot control everything. Yes, we need also to make sure that employers become a more inclusive place and that's, you know, part of the work that Power To Fly is doing. But, but first we need to look at ourselves and what we are doing to change our situ. and if we're in a place that is not inclusive, then we need to figure out what's the next step and move on if we don't have a choice. Right.

[00:22:38] Shannon Russell: tell me some tips that you give your clients when they find themselves in these positions. Do you have tips that you offer right off the bat when they're in a, a position of maybe not being as appreciated?

[00:22:50] Limor Bergman Gross: Well, first of all, you really need to appreciate yourself, . You need to really realize what are you good at? What are your contributions? You need to [00:23:00] really appreciate yourself because a lot of times we don't appreciate ourself.

How can we expect others to, so that's like step zero. Like we have to appreciate ourself mm-hmm. we, and realize that there's more to us than we can do. Then coming up to the company and to the manager, hr, whoever, in, in the support system, and really figure out what's the path for me, what I can do to get to the next level.

Broadcasting about. career aspirations, what they want to get to, and asking for directions of what is they're missing, in order to get to the next level. And a concrete plan. If they don't get the support they need and they realize that they're basically hitting a wall, then I would advise them to start looking elsewhere.

But before that, they, they have to do the inner work and then try to work with their employer to change things.

[00:23:51] Shannon Russell: And start seeing what else is out there. And that's maybe where they come to you for help as far as LinkedIn profiles, resume writing, whatever it may [00:24:00] be.

[00:24:00] Limor Bergman Gross: Yeah, LinkedIn is, um, something that I constantly, constantly work on and I usually advise people not just to work on LinkedIn when they're looking for a job, but constantly be there. I know it's time consuming, but that's. your marketing collateral. That's where people see you. And I was able to switch jobs without even looking for a job.

Both VMware and Digital Ocean found me because I had a stellar profile and I was active and that's really the best approach. But I realized that not always people have time for that. It's time consuming. so definitely work on your profile. , make sure it represents you the way you want to be represented. That is matching where you wanna go, not what you do right now. Oh, that's

[00:24:45] Shannon Russell: interesting. Think about what the next step is and be broadcasting that on

[00:24:49] Limor Bergman Gross: there. Yeah. Because what happens to most people, their profile just present what they do today and not what they want to do, and.

Usually when I work with [00:25:00] people on their profile, I advise them to start looking for, okay, what kind of change they wanna make, what is missing, what they already have, and start emphasizing the different skills that they have that are relevant for positions. They're interested to highlighting those keywords under their profile, and, and try to be more strategic about it instead of just presenting.

what they do today. I

[00:25:22] Shannon Russell: don't think a lot of people think of it like that, but it really should be like an ongoing digital resume, if you will. Sure. Of like what your skills are. And LinkedIn is a funny thing because you can get so many people just requesting you that you have no idea who they are. Do you feel like you should be present in maybe even a few minutes a day? Engaging, accepting people, reaching out to people, be a little bit active, even if it's just a few minutes a day?

[00:25:47] Limor Bergman Gross: Definitely. That's a preferable route in my opinion. First of all, my approach is to connect to people you don't know. I know it's not always people feel comfortable with that, but that's my approach and [00:26:00] definitely be there. The good news is that today everyone can post content, everyone. Showcase their knowledge. You can go live, you can write a newsletter, you can write, post an article. So I think that's the best probably. To be honest, I'm not always as active as I would like to be on LinkedIn just because of time, but. Yes. Be there, be there. Showcase yourself. And I've seen that happening to others, you know, just by changing their profile, they got approached. By companies. Oh. So definitely it's really impactful,

[00:26:36] Shannon Russell: If listeners are wanting to reach out to you for your services, what can you provide them?

[00:26:42] Limor Bergman Gross: If people have a clear idea of what they want and they need a LinkedIn profile that will present them well, I can definitely do that. I can also help them figure out what they want and get more focused, because a lot of times people are not exactly sure what's the next step for them. So I can [00:27:00] definitely help them figure that out with my coaching services. And it can be a combination. Depends really on, uh, on the individual and what they. I feel like I bring the most value to women in tech. I bring also value to women in other fields, because I have so much experience in the tech industry, I bring that extra value.

[00:27:20] Shannon Russell: And you've been through it. You had a successful career. Now you're here mentoring these women who are in the field. So maybe if they feel a little out of place because they're the only woman in their office or you know they have questions and they wanna network with other women, you are someone that's a great resource to reach out to. Definitely.

[00:27:41] Limor Bergman Gross: Alright,

[00:27:41] Shannon Russell: it's time for our 5 Fast Qs of the Week here.

We. Name one thing that these different chapters in your life have taught you?

[00:27:50] Limor Bergman Gross: Resilience, first of all, I made a lot of changes, so definitely change is a good thing. It builds a character, it builds [00:28:00] your courage, and I strongly believe in doing uncomfortable things all. Always be uncomfortable to a certain degree. That's how you. , would you

[00:28:11] Shannon Russell: recommend taking a leap into a big life change to your best friend?

[00:28:16] Limor Bergman Gross: It depends if she's unhappy or she feels like she's not in the right place. Definitely also depends obviously on financial circumstances, right? I mean, I wouldn't recommend it if, if there's hardship and struggle and you know, the money is something they really need to survive. It really depends.

[00:28:35] Shannon Russell: What is one piece of advice that you would give to someone who is starting their second act today? Believe

[00:28:40] Limor Bergman Gross: in yourself and find the support you need. Find a support group. Find like-minded people that you can connect to and, and get, uh, support from. Support each other. So what does

[00:28:53] Shannon Russell: the next chapter look like for you Limor? I

[00:28:56] Limor Bergman Gross: don't know all the answers, right? I mean, there is a little bit of [00:29:00] uncertainty and that's good. I like that because it excites me. So I wanna reach more and more women, and I also want to reach organizations and help them become inclusive and support women in the organization because there I can feel I can make a larger impact rather than just one-on-one.

[00:29:22] Shannon Russell: That's a great path for you. I love that. so where can our audience connect with you?

[00:29:27] Limor Bergman Gross: definitely LinkedIn and also on my website Limor Bergman. So definitely on both.

[00:29:33] Shannon Russell: Fantastic. This was so helpful and I'm so impressed with your journey and I wish you the best of luck with all of your endeavors and helping women in tech and women in general. Thank you so much L

[00:29:45] Limor Bergman Gross: imor.

Thank you so much. And it's been a pleasure being here.

[00:29:49] Shannon Russell: Thank you. Thank you for all of this advice and for leading by example, Limor. What you are doing to help women grow in corporate careers is [00:30:00] admirable, and I applaud you. I will include more on Limor and her work in the show notes for this episode.

Before I let you go, I want to remind you that if you have a question about advancing your career or changing to a new one, complet. You can apply to be a guest on an upcoming episode during my Career Shift Strategy Session right here on the podcast. Just DM me on Instagram @secondactsuccess or email hello@secondactsuccess.co.

Well, we have come to the end of our time together today. My friend. Can't wait to hang out again on the next episode of the Second Act Success Career Podcast. Take care. Thank you for joining us. I hope you found some gems of inspiration and some takeaways to help you on your path to Second Act Success.

To view show notes from this episode, visit secondactsuccess.co. Before you go, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss a single episode. Reviews only take a few moments and they really do [00:31:00] mean so much. Thank you again for listen. I'm Shannon Russell and this is Second Act Success.